Nikos Apostolopoulos: Mrs Marden Ι would like to thank you very much for the interview, which willingly,
accepted to grant us. People in Greece do not know much about your activities
and investigations regarding alien abductions. We would like you to give us an
insight, so to know you better, and tell us about the fact that played a role
in your decision to get involved with the study and the alien abduction
research.
Kathleen
Marden: I am a professional UFO and abduction researcher, author, and lecturer.
My educational background in the social sciences has shaped my interest in
scientific ufology. Extensive research and investigation into alien abduction
has convinced me that some abductions are real. I earned a B.A. degree in
Social Service from the University of New Hampshire and participated in
graduate studies in education while working as a teacher and education services
coordinator. My scholarship led to acceptance into the Alpha Kappa Delta
Sociology Honor Society. During my fifteen years as an educator, I innovated,
designed and implemented model educational programs. I also held a supervisory
position, coordinating, training and evaluating education staff.
My interest in UFOs dates back to
September 20, 1961, when myr aunt, Betty Hill, phoned my childhood home to
report that she and Barney had encountered a flying saucer in New Hampshire’s
White Mountains. A primary witness to the evidence of the UFO encounter and the
aftermath, I have intimate knowledge of the Hill’s biographical histories,
investigation files, and scientific interest in their sensational experience.
This led me on a journey of exploration,
leaving no stone unturned, to find answers through scholarly work,
investigation, and archival research. I am recognized as the world’s leading
expert on the Betty and Barney Hill abduction.
I am associated with the Mutual UFO
Network, as its Director of Experiencer Research and the Foundation for
Research into Extraterrestrial Encounters, as an advisory board member and
consultant to its research subcommittee. In 2012, MUFON bestowed a great honor
upon me when it awarded me its “Researcher of the Year” award. I make it clear
that the views expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily reflect the
views of the organizations of which I am a member.
I have written three books, Captured! The
Betty and Barney Hill UFO Experience, and Science was Wrong, with nuclear
physicist/scientific ufologist Stanton T. Friedman, and The Alien Abduction
Files, with Denise Stoner. My essays have been published in several additional books.
In 2012, I spearheaded an extensive research project, with Denise Stoner, to
identify little known commonalities among experiencers. My articles have been
published in the MUFON UFO Journal, Open Minds, Alternate Perceptions and FATE
magazines and on several websites. I have
appeared in television and radio programs in the US, Canada, Australia
and the UK, and have lectured throughout the United States. You can purchase my
books at any online book retailer or read my articles at www.kathleen-marden.com.
Ν.Α. How do you feel being the niece of two
people, Barney and Betty Hill, who have linked their name with the beggining of
the phenomenon of alien abductions in modern times, even with one incident
which 54 years later continues to provoke the curiosity of the world?
Barney and Betty Hill
Κ.Μ. Betty and Barney Hill were
credible people. My aunt was employed by the State of New Hampshire, as a
social worker, and my uncle worked for the US Post Office. Their political
involvement had drawn positive attention to them. Barney served as Legal
Redress to the NAACP in his area. In 1965, Barney was appointed to the US Civil
Rights Commission’s State Advisory Committee. His work though the US Office of
Economic Opportunity resulted in public recognition and an award by Sargent Shriver,
Director of the US Office of Opportunity under President Lyndon Johnson, and
the architect of America’s War on Poverty. Betty worked closely by Barney’s
side. These are the achievements that Betty and Barney wished to be remembered
for. But it was not to be.
Although the Hills had almost no prior
interest in UFOs, they had the misfortune of experiencing a close encounter in
New Hampshire’s White Mountains on September 19, 1961. The huge, silent
“pancake” shaped craft descended in their direction and hovered only 100 feet
overhead. Barney could not believe his eyes, so he stepped out of the car for a
less encumbered view. At that moment, the craft moved to an adjacent field and
began to descend. Barney, still not believing his eyes, walked toward it. He
was determined that he could identify it as a conventional aircraft, even
though it clearly had unusual properties.
He lifted his binoculars to his eyes and viewed entities that he
described as “somehow not human”. He
became terribly frightened and ran back to the car screaming to Betty that they
had to get out of there or they’d be “captured”. As he ran toward the car, the
craft followed him. Frightened, he fled down the highway in an attempt to
outrun the craft or to find a police officer. Suddenly, he and Betty heard code
like buzzing sounds striking the trunk of their car. They experienced a numbing, tingling
sensation and their car vibrated.
As if only a moment had passed, Betty and
Barney discovered that they were 35 miles south of their previous location.
They remembered a roadblock and a huge fiery orb and heard a second series of
buzzing sounds. Perplexed, they drove silently to their Portsmouth, NH, home
arriving significantly later than expected.
There was perplexing physical evidence
that offered no satisfactory explanation. Betty’s dress was torn in several
places and was later reduced to a rag when a pink powdery substance grew on it;
the tops of Barney’s best dress shoes were so deeply scraped that he was forced
to purchase new shoes; their watches had stopped and never ran again; the
leather strap on Barney’s binoculars was severed, and there were shiny spots
and a magnetic field around the trunk of the car they’d been driving. Barney
developed PTSD symptoms and a bleeding ulcer that would not recede with
traditional medical treatment.
27 months after the incident, the Hills
sought the help of a highly qualified psychiatrist. Both wanted answers,
especially about their apparent 2 hour period of amnesia. He hypnotized them
separately and reinstated amnesia after each session. This and their therapy
sessions went on for 6 months. It was very expensive and tied up their
Saturdays. But it helped to relieved Barney’s PTSD and ulcers.
Betty and Barney had made the decision to
share their information only with UFO researchers and investigators,
scientists, military officers, close friends and their family. However, a UFO
investigator with whom Betty has shared her confidential information violated
her confidentiality oath. She shared Betty’s story with a newspaper reported,
who contacted the Hills for an interview. Betty and Barney were alarmed, so
they informed the newspaper reporter that they did not intend to share
information with him. Furthermore, they threatened legal action against him if
he published their information. Despite their desire for confidentiality, their
story ran for 5 days in a Boston, MA, newspaper.
It dealt a
devastating blow to my family. Never in a million years would we want to be
associated with this type of event. However, the story had already been told,
so with the family’s consent, Betty and Barney made the decision to go public.
They wanted to demonstrate that they were emotionally stable, intelligent, high
achieving people. Yet the attacks upon
Betty and Barney by nasty, noisy naysayers were relentless. Information has
been distorted and many lies have been told. This is my reason for defending
the truth.
Ν.Α. You have been recognized as the world's
leading expert concerning the Hills'es abduction. You have investigate in depth
this case for many years, and you have seek new information and spoke with many
people, even military, who had dealt
with the case since the first moment of its publication. After all this
research what are your own conclusions, and what has positively impressed you
and negatively troubled you?
Betty’s
Escort
Κ.Μ. Initially, I attempted to find a
prosaic explanation for my aunt and uncle’s experience. As a rational skeptic, I considered the idea
that Betty and Barney had misidentified a conventional aircraft. However, the
US Air Force Project Blue Book’s files clearly stated that at closest approach
it “appeared to be the size of a dinner plate at arm’s length”. It “changed direction rapidly”, “hovered” and
“ made no sound”. They had observed the object for approximately an hour before
it descended rapidly in their direction. Betty and Barney had conscious,
continuous recall of these events. These memories were not brought out for the
first time under hypnosis. Betty and Barney’s descriptive details matched. In
addition to this, the Hills had never read a book on the topic. My research and
investigation convinced me that the Hills had observed an unconventional craft
and that Barney had observed non-humans aboard the craft that had frightened
him terribly.
Next, I attempted to refute the validity
of the Hill’s memories under hypnosis, especially their memories of being
captured and taken aboard a landed disk-shaped craft. Betty had dreamed that
she and Barney had been stopped by black haired human-appearing men, who were
dressed in military cadet uniforms. Their skin was slightly gray and their lips
were somewhat blue, but their demeanor and appearance was human. In Betty’s
dream, the men spoke with strong accents and were affable. This is not what the
Hills remembered under hypnosis. They were captured by two groups of aliens.
Both were hairless and had spindly limbs. They had large wrap around eyes,
enlarged craniums, only a slit where a mouth would be, and no external ears.
Their communication transferred to the Hills in English, but neither observed
movement of the mouth. They wore black, tight fitting attire similar to a
wetsuit. No zippers or buttons were
visible. Their demeanor was businesslike. Betty and Barney feared for their
lives.
It would be necessary for me to conduct an
analysis of the Hill’s separate statements to Dr. Simon, in order to determine
if Barney had absorbed some of the information in Betty’s dreams and then
confabulated a fantasy under hypnosis. I also had to compare Betty’s statements
with the information in her written dream account. It was very time consuming.
I transcribed their hypnosis tapes and lined up their statements incrementally.
In the end, I discovered that Betty and Barney had recalled descriptive details
that were not in Betty’s dream account. Not only did they mesh, they were not
consistent with the details in Betty’s dreams. This, along with the scientific
analysis of the evidence convinced me that the Hills had participated in the same
experience.
For example, the interior of the craft, in
Betty’s dreams, was consistent with what might have been found on our planet in
1961. There was a book on a table and a star map that unrolled from a spool.
Her dream information had a fantasy quality.
Furthermore, the ETs were different in appearance than the ones in
Betty’s dreams. And the technology on the craft was far in advance of our own
technology. The only troubling part of my investigation was the fact that Betty
sometimes mixed her dream fantasy with the real event. But it is clear that she
also separated them sufficiently.
Ν.Α. A number of skeptics claim that because of
the fact that the story of UFO begins in 1947, in other words, books on UFO
existed 15 years earlier than the first kidnapping, readers were already
familiar with the theories of flying objects and small pilots with big heads
who kidnapped people .This kind of information were available even in American
science fiction magazines. So, could all these stories of alien abductions be
based on these literary models? Could people's minds be impregnated and
influenced by the American culture of that time?
Κ.Μ. I investigated the skeptic’s
claims and was surprised to find that a few comic books had carried stories of
ET contact. There was also a frightening radio broadcast of “War of the Worlds”
that dated back to 1938. My family had no interest in science fiction. We were
not permitted to read comic books. Dr. Simon asked Betty and Barney if they had
a prior interest in science fiction and both stated that they did not. They had
not read it, nor had they viewed it on television. Despite this documented
evidence, a few nasty, noisy skeptics insist that the Hills were science
fiction enthusiasts. It is a lie. Also,
a person would have to be fantasy prone and have a boundary deficit disorder to
mistake fantasy for reality. The Hills had neither.
Ν.Α. Are there some common characteristics in
personalities of those people who have been kidnapped or these phenomena incur
at all socio-economic groups?
Κ.Μ. Academic research studies in the
US and Canada indicate that those who meet the criteria for having experienced
a real abduction are no more fantasy prone than the general population. In
addition to this, studies have not identified a higher than average percentage
of boundary deficit disorder or other personality disorders among abductees.
These experiences span all socioeconomic groups, ethnic groups, religious
groups, intellectual levels and educational achievement levels. I have
interviewed many high achieving members of society who have one thing in
common: they have troubling memories of alien abduction.
I have encountered personality traits
among the mentally ill and also those with personality disorders. The mentally
ill tend to experience the most horrific delusions you can imagine about
predatory ETs. Fantasy prone wannabes, in general, have developed both negative
and positive fantasies about ET contact. Some of these individuals are noisy
attention seekers. I have found no evidence that any of the psychological cases
I’ve investigated are real. The late psychiatrist from Harvard University, Dr.
John Mack, cautioned us that some psychologically disturbed individuals have
probably been abducted. But I am conservative and cautious. If an experiencer
has a formal diagnosis of a major mental illness, I do not investigate the case
further. I am not a psychiatrist.
Ν.Α. Over the last two decades, there has been a
series of interventions in order to remove implants from people who claimed
that have been abducted by aliens. Are you aware of the conclusions that have
been reached by the spedial scientists who have studied the subject, and what
is your personal point of view?
Κ.Μ. The late Dr. Roger Leir and Derrel
Sims are the two individuals who’ve specialized in alien implant removal and
scientific analysis. Both concluded that there is no visible entry site or scar
tissue formation around the implant. The object is covered by a membrane that
resists infection and, when it is removed, being punctured by a scalpel. There
is an excess of proprioceptive nerve fibers around and connected to the
implant. The objects emit radio microwave frequencies and are slightly
radioactive. They are composed of carbon nanotubes and material having
isometric ratios of non-terrestrial origin. They seem to have
intelligence.
Ν.Α. In the last decades conspiracy theories
attract a large part of the world and I would like to ask if implants are maybe
the result of a secret military programme and not "a job" of
extraterrestrials?
Κ.Μ. My answer to number 6 explains why
they are not part of a secret military program. I am not a conspiracy theorist.
Ν.Α. Are governments aware of alien abductions?
and if so, what is the reason for not alerting the public?
Κ.Μ. National security is the reason
for the government to cover-up of UFOs and alien abductions. Imagine the
psychological impact it would have upon a nation if it were informed by its
leaders that aliens are secretly visiting our planet and abducting our people.
Sorry folks! There is nothing we can do to protect you. We are militarily
helpless. In my opinion, there would be widespread panic.
Ν.Α. What is your opinion about the so-called
"Reproduction Program" which is believed by many, such as Budd
Hopkins and David Jacobs, that is in progress by the aliens?
Κ.Μ. The reproductive experiments are
very frightening to me as a researcher. I’ve heard similar stories many times
from the experiencers that I’ve interviewed. David Jacobs takes a negative view
on this topic. He believes that the ETs are going to repopulate the world with
hybrids. Investigators, such as Mary Rodwell and Barbara Lamb, believe that ET
contact is positive. My interviews with
experiencers lead me to suspect that the ETs are possibly altering the human
genome. This is speculative, but they’ve informed many experiencers that our
warlike behavior could lead to our extinction. They seem displeased with human
greed, violence and our lack of empathy.
Ν.Α. Are there are cases of people who had been
kidnapped by aliens and when they had their own families, their children
experienced similar situtations? Could there be a continuation of kidnappings
from generation to generation? And if so, why do you think this happens?
Κ.Μ. Many experiencers state that they
were children when they were abducted for the first time. They were taken from
their farmlands, from the woods, from parks, etc. They claim that the ETs have
taken them periodically throughout their lifetime and have also taken their
biological children. Alien abduction appears to follow family genetic lines.
Ν.Α. Do you happen to know any prominent
personalities who believe that alien abductions are real, but they still refuse
to express their views publicly for fear of damaging their reputation?
Κ.Μ. Certainly! I’ve spoken with many
scientists and medical doctors who believe that ET contact is real. I’m also
aware of a few former military officers, airline pilots, medical doctors,
lawyers, and other professional people who believe they’ve been abducted by
aliens.
Ν.Α. Could maybe the whole scenario of the alien
abduction be a sign that our society "traces" a phenomenon which is
as old as the mankind? In other words, could this phenomenon exist and not be a
phenomenon of our modern times?
Κ.Μ. US Air Force Intelligence Chief,
Major General John A. Samford called a press conference at the Pentagon on July
29, 1952, to address the issue pertaining to
UFOs that had gained widespread public attention in Washington, DC, and
across the USA. It was the largest press conference since World War II and
lasted for 1.5 hours. Major General Samford; Major General Roger Ramey,
Director of Operations and Commander of the 8th Air Force; Colonel Donald
Bower, Technical Analysis Division, ATIC; Captain Roy James, Air Technical
Intelligence Center; Captain Edward J. Ruppelt, Project Blue Book Director,
ATIC; and Mr. Burgoyne L Griffing, Electronics Branch, ATIC met an enthusiastic
press. General Samford stated that approximately 20% of the reports, received
by the Air Force, came from “credible observers of relatively incredible
things” (Minutes from General Samford’s press conference.) He reassured the press
that the objects did not appear to be a menace to the United States, adding ,
“Reports like this go back to Biblical times. There have been flurries of them
in various centuries” (p. 2, General Samford’s press conference) He mentioned
reports of inexplicable aerial objects in 1846, and a current flurry of reports
that began in Sweden in 1946. He advised the press that the Air Force was
giving it adequate attention, but not frantic attention to these objects.
Ν.Α. We would like to thank you for your time, for
the information you have given us and wishing you all the best in everything
that you will do in future.
Κ.Μ. Thank-you!
