Nikos Apostolopoulos: Mrs Marden Ι would like to thank you very much for the interview, which willingly, accepted to grant us. People in Greece do not know much about your activities and investigations regarding alien abductions. We would like you to give us an insight, so to know you better, and tell us about the fact that played a role in your decision to get involved with the study and the alien abduction research.
Kathleen Marden: I am a professional UFO and abduction researcher, author, and lecturer. My educational background in the social sciences has shaped my interest in scientific ufology. Extensive research and investigation into alien abduction has convinced me that some abductions are real. I earned a B.A. degree in Social Service from the University of New Hampshire and participated in graduate studies in education while working as a teacher and education services coordinator. My scholarship led to acceptance into the Alpha Kappa Delta Sociology Honor Society. During my fifteen years as an educator, I innovated, designed and implemented model educational programs. I also held a supervisory position, coordinating, training and evaluating education staff.
My interest in UFOs dates back to September 20, 1961, when myr aunt, Betty Hill, phoned my childhood home to report that she and Barney had encountered a flying saucer in New Hampshire’s White Mountains. A primary witness to the evidence of the UFO encounter and the aftermath, I have intimate knowledge of the Hill’s biographical histories, investigation files, and scientific interest in their sensational experience. This led me on a journey of exploration, leaving no stone unturned, to find answers through scholarly work, investigation, and archival research. I am recognized as the world’s leading expert on the Betty and Barney Hill abduction.
I am associated with the Mutual UFO Network, as its Director of Experiencer Research and the Foundation for Research into Extraterrestrial Encounters, as an advisory board member and consultant to its research subcommittee. In 2012, MUFON bestowed a great honor upon me when it awarded me its “Researcher of the Year” award. I make it clear that the views expressed by me are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the organizations of which I am a member.
I have written three books, Captured! The Betty and Barney Hill UFO Experience, and Science was Wrong, with nuclear physicist/scientific ufologist Stanton T. Friedman, and The Alien Abduction Files, with Denise Stoner. My essays have been published in several additional books. In 2012, I spearheaded an extensive research project, with Denise Stoner, to identify little known commonalities among experiencers. My articles have been published in the MUFON UFO Journal, Open Minds, Alternate Perceptions and FATE magazines and on several websites. I have appeared in television and radio programs in the US, Canada, Australia and the UK, and have lectured throughout the United States. You can purchase my books at any online book retailer or read my articles at www.kathleen-marden.com.
Ν.Α. How do you feel being the niece of two people, Barney and Betty Hill, who have linked their name with the beggining of the phenomenon of alien abductions in modern times, even with one incident which 54 years later continues to provoke the curiosity of the world?
Barney and Betty Hill
Κ.Μ. Betty and Barney Hill were credible people. My aunt was employed by the State of New Hampshire, as a social worker, and my uncle worked for the US Post Office. Their political involvement had drawn positive attention to them. Barney served as Legal Redress to the NAACP in his area. In 1965, Barney was appointed to the US Civil Rights Commission’s State Advisory Committee. His work though the US Office of Economic Opportunity resulted in public recognition and an award by Sargent Shriver, Director of the US Office of Opportunity under President Lyndon Johnson, and the architect of America’s War on Poverty. Betty worked closely by Barney’s side. These are the achievements that Betty and Barney wished to be remembered for. But it was not to be.
Although the Hills had almost no prior interest in UFOs, they had the misfortune of experiencing a close encounter in New Hampshire’s White Mountains on September 19, 1961. The huge, silent “pancake” shaped craft descended in their direction and hovered only 100 feet overhead. Barney could not believe his eyes, so he stepped out of the car for a less encumbered view. At that moment, the craft moved to an adjacent field and began to descend. Barney, still not believing his eyes, walked toward it. He was determined that he could identify it as a conventional aircraft, even though it clearly had unusual properties. He lifted his binoculars to his eyes and viewed entities that he described as “somehow not human”. He became terribly frightened and ran back to the car screaming to Betty that they had to get out of there or they’d be “captured”. As he ran toward the car, the craft followed him. Frightened, he fled down the highway in an attempt to outrun the craft or to find a police officer. Suddenly, he and Betty heard code like buzzing sounds striking the trunk of their car. They experienced a numbing, tingling sensation and their car vibrated.
As if only a moment had passed, Betty and Barney discovered that they were 35 miles south of their previous location. They remembered a roadblock and a huge fiery orb and heard a second series of buzzing sounds. Perplexed, they drove silently to their Portsmouth, NH, home arriving significantly later than expected.
There was perplexing physical evidence that offered no satisfactory explanation. Betty’s dress was torn in several places and was later reduced to a rag when a pink powdery substance grew on it; the tops of Barney’s best dress shoes were so deeply scraped that he was forced to purchase new shoes; their watches had stopped and never ran again; the leather strap on Barney’s binoculars was severed, and there were shiny spots and a magnetic field around the trunk of the car they’d been driving. Barney developed PTSD symptoms and a bleeding ulcer that would not recede with traditional medical treatment.
27 months after the incident, the Hills sought the help of a highly qualified psychiatrist. Both wanted answers, especially about their apparent 2 hour period of amnesia. He hypnotized them separately and reinstated amnesia after each session. This and their therapy sessions went on for 6 months. It was very expensive and tied up their Saturdays. But it helped to relieved Barney’s PTSD and ulcers.
Betty and Barney had made the decision to share their information only with UFO researchers and investigators, scientists, military officers, close friends and their family. However, a UFO investigator with whom Betty has shared her confidential information violated her confidentiality oath. She shared Betty’s story with a newspaper reported, who contacted the Hills for an interview. Betty and Barney were alarmed, so they informed the newspaper reporter that they did not intend to share information with him. Furthermore, they threatened legal action against him if he published their information. Despite their desire for confidentiality, their story ran for 5 days in a Boston, MA, newspaper.
It dealt a devastating blow to my family. Never in a million years would we want to be associated with this type of event. However, the story had already been told, so with the family’s consent, Betty and Barney made the decision to go public. They wanted to demonstrate that they were emotionally stable, intelligent, high achieving people. Yet the attacks upon Betty and Barney by nasty, noisy naysayers were relentless. Information has been distorted and many lies have been told. This is my reason for defending the truth.
Ν.Α. You have been recognized as the world's leading expert concerning the Hills'es abduction. You have investigate in depth this case for many years, and you have seek new information and spoke with many people, even military, who had dealt with the case since the first moment of its publication. After all this research what are your own conclusions, and what has positively impressed you and negatively troubled you?
Κ.Μ. Initially, I attempted to find a prosaic explanation for my aunt and uncle’s experience. As a rational skeptic, I considered the idea that Betty and Barney had misidentified a conventional aircraft. However, the US Air Force Project Blue Book’s files clearly stated that at closest approach it “appeared to be the size of a dinner plate at arm’s length”. It “changed direction rapidly”, “hovered” and “ made no sound”. They had observed the object for approximately an hour before it descended rapidly in their direction. Betty and Barney had conscious, continuous recall of these events. These memories were not brought out for the first time under hypnosis. Betty and Barney’s descriptive details matched. In addition to this, the Hills had never read a book on the topic. My research and investigation convinced me that the Hills had observed an unconventional craft and that Barney had observed non-humans aboard the craft that had frightened him terribly.
Next, I attempted to refute the validity of the Hill’s memories under hypnosis, especially their memories of being captured and taken aboard a landed disk-shaped craft. Betty had dreamed that she and Barney had been stopped by black haired human-appearing men, who were dressed in military cadet uniforms. Their skin was slightly gray and their lips were somewhat blue, but their demeanor and appearance was human. In Betty’s dream, the men spoke with strong accents and were affable. This is not what the Hills remembered under hypnosis. They were captured by two groups of aliens. Both were hairless and had spindly limbs. They had large wrap around eyes, enlarged craniums, only a slit where a mouth would be, and no external ears. Their communication transferred to the Hills in English, but neither observed movement of the mouth. They wore black, tight fitting attire similar to a wetsuit. No zippers or buttons were visible. Their demeanor was businesslike. Betty and Barney feared for their lives.
It would be necessary for me to conduct an analysis of the Hill’s separate statements to Dr. Simon, in order to determine if Barney had absorbed some of the information in Betty’s dreams and then confabulated a fantasy under hypnosis. I also had to compare Betty’s statements with the information in her written dream account. It was very time consuming. I transcribed their hypnosis tapes and lined up their statements incrementally. In the end, I discovered that Betty and Barney had recalled descriptive details that were not in Betty’s dream account. Not only did they mesh, they were not consistent with the details in Betty’s dreams. This, along with the scientific analysis of the evidence convinced me that the Hills had participated in the same experience.
For example, the interior of the craft, in Betty’s dreams, was consistent with what might have been found on our planet in 1961. There was a book on a table and a star map that unrolled from a spool. Her dream information had a fantasy quality. Furthermore, the ETs were different in appearance than the ones in Betty’s dreams. And the technology on the craft was far in advance of our own technology. The only troubling part of my investigation was the fact that Betty sometimes mixed her dream fantasy with the real event. But it is clear that she also separated them sufficiently.
Ν.Α. A number of skeptics claim that because of the fact that the story of UFO begins in 1947, in other words, books on UFO existed 15 years earlier than the first kidnapping, readers were already familiar with the theories of flying objects and small pilots with big heads who kidnapped people .This kind of information were available even in American science fiction magazines. So, could all these stories of alien abductions be based on these literary models? Could people's minds be impregnated and influenced by the American culture of that time?
Κ.Μ. I investigated the skeptic’s claims and was surprised to find that a few comic books had carried stories of ET contact. There was also a frightening radio broadcast of “War of the Worlds” that dated back to 1938. My family had no interest in science fiction. We were not permitted to read comic books. Dr. Simon asked Betty and Barney if they had a prior interest in science fiction and both stated that they did not. They had not read it, nor had they viewed it on television. Despite this documented evidence, a few nasty, noisy skeptics insist that the Hills were science fiction enthusiasts. It is a lie. Also, a person would have to be fantasy prone and have a boundary deficit disorder to mistake fantasy for reality. The Hills had neither.
Ν.Α. Are there some common characteristics in personalities of those people who have been kidnapped or these phenomena incur at all socio-economic groups?
Κ.Μ. Academic research studies in the US and Canada indicate that those who meet the criteria for having experienced a real abduction are no more fantasy prone than the general population. In addition to this, studies have not identified a higher than average percentage of boundary deficit disorder or other personality disorders among abductees. These experiences span all socioeconomic groups, ethnic groups, religious groups, intellectual levels and educational achievement levels. I have interviewed many high achieving members of society who have one thing in common: they have troubling memories of alien abduction.
I have encountered personality traits among the mentally ill and also those with personality disorders. The mentally ill tend to experience the most horrific delusions you can imagine about predatory ETs. Fantasy prone wannabes, in general, have developed both negative and positive fantasies about ET contact. Some of these individuals are noisy attention seekers. I have found no evidence that any of the psychological cases I’ve investigated are real. The late psychiatrist from Harvard University, Dr. John Mack, cautioned us that some psychologically disturbed individuals have probably been abducted. But I am conservative and cautious. If an experiencer has a formal diagnosis of a major mental illness, I do not investigate the case further. I am not a psychiatrist.
Ν.Α. Over the last two decades, there has been a series of interventions in order to remove implants from people who claimed that have been abducted by aliens. Are you aware of the conclusions that have been reached by the spedial scientists who have studied the subject, and what is your personal point of view?
Κ.Μ. The late Dr. Roger Leir and Derrel Sims are the two individuals who’ve specialized in alien implant removal and scientific analysis. Both concluded that there is no visible entry site or scar tissue formation around the implant. The object is covered by a membrane that resists infection and, when it is removed, being punctured by a scalpel. There is an excess of proprioceptive nerve fibers around and connected to the implant. The objects emit radio microwave frequencies and are slightly radioactive. They are composed of carbon nanotubes and material having isometric ratios of non-terrestrial origin. They seem to have intelligence.
Ν.Α. In the last decades conspiracy theories attract a large part of the world and I would like to ask if implants are maybe the result of a secret military programme and not "a job" of extraterrestrials?
Κ.Μ. My answer to number 6 explains why they are not part of a secret military program. I am not a conspiracy theorist.
Ν.Α. Are governments aware of alien abductions? and if so, what is the reason for not alerting the public?
Κ.Μ. National security is the reason for the government to cover-up of UFOs and alien abductions. Imagine the psychological impact it would have upon a nation if it were informed by its leaders that aliens are secretly visiting our planet and abducting our people. Sorry folks! There is nothing we can do to protect you. We are militarily helpless. In my opinion, there would be widespread panic.
Ν.Α. What is your opinion about the so-called "Reproduction Program" which is believed by many, such as Budd Hopkins and David Jacobs, that is in progress by the aliens?
Κ.Μ. The reproductive experiments are very frightening to me as a researcher. I’ve heard similar stories many times from the experiencers that I’ve interviewed. David Jacobs takes a negative view on this topic. He believes that the ETs are going to repopulate the world with hybrids. Investigators, such as Mary Rodwell and Barbara Lamb, believe that ET contact is positive. My interviews with experiencers lead me to suspect that the ETs are possibly altering the human genome. This is speculative, but they’ve informed many experiencers that our warlike behavior could lead to our extinction. They seem displeased with human greed, violence and our lack of empathy.
Ν.Α. Are there are cases of people who had been kidnapped by aliens and when they had their own families, their children experienced similar situtations? Could there be a continuation of kidnappings from generation to generation? And if so, why do you think this happens?
Κ.Μ. Many experiencers state that they were children when they were abducted for the first time. They were taken from their farmlands, from the woods, from parks, etc. They claim that the ETs have taken them periodically throughout their lifetime and have also taken their biological children. Alien abduction appears to follow family genetic lines.
Ν.Α. Do you happen to know any prominent personalities who believe that alien abductions are real, but they still refuse to express their views publicly for fear of damaging their reputation?
Κ.Μ. Certainly! I’ve spoken with many scientists and medical doctors who believe that ET contact is real. I’m also aware of a few former military officers, airline pilots, medical doctors, lawyers, and other professional people who believe they’ve been abducted by aliens.
Ν.Α. Could maybe the whole scenario of the alien abduction be a sign that our society "traces" a phenomenon which is as old as the mankind? In other words, could this phenomenon exist and not be a phenomenon of our modern times?
Κ.Μ. US Air Force Intelligence Chief, Major General John A. Samford called a press conference at the Pentagon on July 29, 1952, to address the issue pertaining to UFOs that had gained widespread public attention in Washington, DC, and across the USA. It was the largest press conference since World War II and lasted for 1.5 hours. Major General Samford; Major General Roger Ramey, Director of Operations and Commander of the 8th Air Force; Colonel Donald Bower, Technical Analysis Division, ATIC; Captain Roy James, Air Technical Intelligence Center; Captain Edward J. Ruppelt, Project Blue Book Director, ATIC; and Mr. Burgoyne L Griffing, Electronics Branch, ATIC met an enthusiastic press. General Samford stated that approximately 20% of the reports, received by the Air Force, came from “credible observers of relatively incredible things” (Minutes from General Samford’s press conference.) He reassured the press that the objects did not appear to be a menace to the United States, adding , “Reports like this go back to Biblical times. There have been flurries of them in various centuries” (p. 2, General Samford’s press conference) He mentioned reports of inexplicable aerial objects in 1846, and a current flurry of reports that began in Sweden in 1946. He advised the press that the Air Force was giving it adequate attention, but not frantic attention to these objects.
Ν.Α. We would like to thank you for your time, for the information you have given us and wishing you all the best in everything that you will do in future.